Celine Song On 'Materialists' Star Signs & Tinder's Height Filter

You’ve watched the trailer (multiple times). You’ve probably flip-flopped between choosing Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans if you were in Dakota Johnson’s Bottega Knot sandals. But did you know that Materialists’ Celine Song had just one astrological element in mind for all three characters?

Ahead of the film’s June 13 release, Song — otherwise known as the writer and director who made you gasp-sob so hard during Past Lives that a flight attendant handed you water without asking — sat down virtually with NYLON to dispense the realest love advice you can get on the internet for free. Some of it goes deep, some of it touches on silly online trends, but all of it, like Song’s movies, reveals her as a deeply Austenian watcher and understander of people. Here, we’ve pulled out the most thought-provoking bits from our conversation about astrological compatibility, anti-short-king discrimination, and income gaps. Fair warning: There might be some minor spoilers within.

On Getting Over Height Hang-Ups

“I wish the world gave a sh*t about height a lot less. One of the dating apps [Editor’s note: It’s Tinder] is trying to introduce a height filter, and I think that it's so dehumanizing. Why do you need somebody who's over 6 feet tall? It's always because it makes you look valuable to be with somebody who's taller than you. It's so connected to what I want to talk about in the film. There's a line that goes, ‘I'm not merchandise. I'm a person.’ So to me it's like, for you to focus on a person that you love's height is you treating that person like they’re merchandise. It's like carrying an Hermès bag. What is the point of an Hermès bag except to say, ‘I'm carrying an Hermès bag?’ Is it going to inspire more love from you for this person to be over 6 feet tall? Or is it possible that you just love this person? So I think it's very anti-love to be obsessed with height. I think it's very dark.”

On What You Must Understand Before Going To A Matchmaker

“The truth is that love is a holy miracle, and when it happens, it should be treated as such. You're just going to a matchmaker as a way to improve [your chances of] accidentally stumbling over a miracle, right? You can hear it in the way Lucy talks about it in the film. You can't build a person for you. I wish we could all create little fake Sims, and give it all the qualities you want, but people are who they are. It's like going out into the middle of the field hoping to get struck by lightning. And either you can be far away from lightning or have a matchmaker.”

On How Important Star Signs Are (Or Not)

“My goal always is to say that whatever's going to help you connect with another human being more, that's the way it should be. What I don't like is prejudices against certain star signs. I'm a big star-signs person. I'm a Virgo. I'm always just like, ‘Well, if it leads to somebody ruling out a whole sign, then I don't like it as a part of the conversation about dating, because I feel like everything depends on a person.’ I know the most loyal Geminis ... they're [not] all disloyal or flighty. They're each their own person.”

On Her Characters’ Star Signs

“Because the movie's called Materialists, I wanted all three characters to be earth signs. So I would say that Lucy's a Virgo, because I'm a Virgo. And then I think John's a Taurus, the child side of the earth signs. And then I think that being so controlled and working on yourself and, I don't know, being a little bit vulnerable as a result of that... Harry is a Capricorn. I think the surgery he gets, I was thinking it's like, ‘Wow, that's the motivation for a Capricorn, specifically. It's coming from them being builders.’”

On Whether A Gap In Income Or Ambition Is More Detrimental

“I think ambition is going to be a bigger issue, because I feel like income changes throughout your life, right? If you guys are aligned in your drive, and the kind of drive, and the force with which you have that drive, I think you can get through any level of income in between. For example, I'm married to another freelance artist. Part of our income is so erratic. It's like I'm making a lot of money this year, and he's making a lot of money next year. But we are both ambitious in the same way about great achievement professionally in work and in our art, our desire to be the greatest artists that we can be. If that ambition was not aligned, I don't think we could work.”

On The Most Successful Hetero Relationship

“I'm sure straight men feel all kinds of things about it, but in general, I feel like because they have always been the most dominant group of people, that they maybe carry a lot of entitlement. And maybe equality rises when the half of the relationship that usually is more inclined to behave in a more entitled way is first to surrender or surrenders more. Yeah, maybe that's the way to solve the gender inequality that’s naturally in relationships: to have a lot more power in the woman.”